In a new interview, the novelist Joyce Carol Oates tussles with xwaldie over the themes in her work, autofiction, and the mythic Male and Female.
, which converts the stuff of Marilyn Monroe’s life into hallucinatory fiction and is widely regarded as Oates’s masterwork, will be available for streaming on Netflix. “Blonde,” the film, stars Ana de Armas and was directed by Andrew Dominik. “Blonde,” the book, exceeds seven hundred pages yet distills its author’s career, expressing as transcendently as she ever has her gothic, gory sensibility and interest in gendered archetypes.
Well, it’s hard to say. If you are a writer or an artist, each project you work on is actually very special and challenging. Each project exerts its own challenges and its own gravitas. I’m probably drawn to writing about relative underdogs or people who’ve been marginalized or impoverished or disenfranchised. They don’t have to be blond girls or women. They could also be men.
You told your biographer that you were inspired to write “Blonde” after seeing a photo of the seventeen-year-old Norma Jean. You said that “this young, hopefully smiling girl, so very American, reminded me powerfully of girls of my childhood, some of them from broken homes.” Could you say more about what these girls were like, and how you knew them?
A writer holds a mirror up to life. So I’m writing about life in America. I don’t think anything that writers do should be reduced to just their own families. Say somebody is writing about war or the Holocaust—it’s not related to their own family. It’s basically something that’s in the world. We are dramatizing it, holding it up for others to examine. I’ve written so many books. I certainly exhausted my own life long ago.
“The music of different people’s voices.” In some ways, I feel like the music in your work is the voice of mass culture. You weave in lyrics from pop songs. I’m thinking particularly of “Where Are You Going” and “Blonde.” The music feels disruptive, or subversive, in your story. I’m reminded of other elements of your style—all the italics and parentheses and cascading repetition. And, thematically, your novels can be pretty violent and extreme. There’s graphic rape, murder, child abuse. Do you find yourself drawn to excess?
He writes about lynching in America. Really profound writing. So, when I was contrasting that to autofiction, it just seems so extraordinary that you have a body of writing about subjects of great tragic and political significance set beside these very autobiographical minimalist works of fiction. I had lived in Detroit myself, with my husband. I had friends who lived in the suburbs. It was a time when white residents were fleeing. Babysitter, the real serial killer, was a white man, but it was thought that he could have been a Black man preying on white children. White people thought that—wrongly. Their racial animosity was not borne out by reality.I think most people don’t have strong personalities in themselves.
Whenever we lose somebody very close to us—it could be a parent, a spouse, a sister, or a brother—that violent, visceral loss is difficult to talk about. People don’t know what to say. People lose their dogs and cats and they suddenly collapse. They keep seeing the animal around the house. There’s that element of loss that is visceral and not amenable to rationality. The closer you are to someone, when you lose that person, the more your own personality is shocked.
But the quote about how violence creates a mysterious and terrible brotherhood of men, though, was from a piece of nonfiction. I think you were writing as yourself.I don’t think all men are unified or bonded in violence. Boxing celebrates male violence and self-sacrifice. Now there are women boxers. When I was writing about boxing, women boxers weren’t that prominent. I wouldn’t say all men [are violent], but, when you’re writing a piece of creative nonfiction, you might overstate things.
First, he wanted Naomi Watts to play Marilyn. Then he couldn’t get the money, and she aged out, which is an awful expression. Then he had another young woman actress, andSo finally, Ana de Armas is just the right age. Andrew wanted her right away, and he knew he wanted her. But I had very little to do with it. I saw the almost-final cut, they sent a kind of embargoed film, and I had to see it within forty-eight hours. They’re so afraid of these films being pirated.
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